VR, AR, MR— Mark Herring has mastered it all. But his greatest achievement has come in helping his clients navigate the world of live events in a post-pandemic world. This week, we get his perspective on making digital every bit as exciting as live, and why the rush back to in-person events may be premature and short-lived.
Where Virtual and Live Meet (ft. Mark Herring, President of Signature Production Group Southeast)
Mark Herring is blurring the line between in-person and online events
OPENING QUOTE:
“And the real challenge for the companies and the agencies that are being asked to produce these is how to keep the end audience engaged in the virtual environment. And a lot of the ways you do that is to heighten the broadcast experience.”
-Mark Herring
GUEST BIO:
Mark Herring, president of Signature Production Group Southeast, has been producing in-person events around the world for more than 20 years. Today, Mark has settled down in Atlanta to head up a unique broadcast studio designed and outfitted to produce the very best in virtual and hybrid events for even bigger global audiences.
Links:
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[5:37] - Back to Broadcast
A pandemic-inspired pivot
After the pandemic hit, Mark saw a need for large-scale virtual events that offered all of the features of live— monitors, teleprompters, graphic support, cues, speaker timers, and everything else you’d get onstage that you won’t get on Zoom. So Mark launched a studio to provide those exact services in the digital space.
[8:39] - “The Honeymoon Phase”
Mark urges caution before rushing back to live events
Mark believes there will be a fall in live events after this initial rise after the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic. “We were able to save so much money doing events virtually,” he says. “But the people that are actually wanting to do the communication are gonna want a heightened experience that engages that at home audience, which is much harder to do when you are in a virtual environment.”
That’s where Mark and his team come in, delivering all the features of live in a virtual space.
[21:33] - Creating Virtual Out of Live
Specific content for the at-home audience
Mark speaks about tools that can be utilized in the virtual space to bring a live event’s benefits to virtual viewers. These include chat, Q&A, and the ability to engage with the presenter. There are technical challenges inherent in this, such as signal delays, but people like Mark are working everyday to find creative solutions to these issues to make virtual events as seamless as possible.
[23:23] - Creating Live Out of Virtual
How a small live audience makes digital experiences explosive
One hybrid concept Mark is helping pioneer is a virtual-focused event that nonetheless has a small in-person audience. Why? The same reason shows like Saturday Night Live, which are geared toward wide television audiences, still bring in a small studio audience. It creates energy, enlivens the entire event, and creates a sense of stakes and interest.
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As the son of a successful salesman, he was exposed to the principles of building a business at an early age. As a comedian, Scott cut his teeth at renowned improv and comedy clubs. And as a self-taught student of psychology, he’s explored what makes people tick and has written a book (albeit a farce) on how to get through life. He’s uniquely positioned to deliver significant notes on connecting people and making business seriously funny. And who doesn’t like to laugh?
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SHOW CREDITS:
Mark Herring:
And the real challenge for the companies and the agencies that are being asked to produce these is how to keep the end audience engaged in the virtual environment. And a lot of the ways you do that is to heighten the broadcast experience.
Scott Bloom:
Welcome to No More Bad Events, the podcast for professional event organizers and anyone who wants to take their events to the next level. Each week we'll hear from the best in the business and get an inside look at what goes on behind the scenes at the world's most perfectly executed conferences, meetings, and more. Together, we'll learn the secrets and strategies to help us reach one big goal.
Scott Bloom:
No More Bad Events, our show is brought to you by eSpeakers. And I'm your host, Scott Bloom. Let's get started.
Scott Bloom:
Today's show is sponsored by ImpactEleven, formerly known as 3 Ring Circus, the best and most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers. They're not just elevating an industry we know and love, they work with hundreds of speakers to launch or scale their speaking businesses, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. If you're looking to take your speaking career to the next level, they'll help you make a bigger impact faster. To learn more and schedule a free intro call visit impacteleven.com that's impacteleven.com.
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Scott Bloom:
After 20 years of globetrotting around the in-person event track Mark Herring, president of Signature Production Group Southeast is settling down in Atlanta to produce virtual and hybrid events for even bigger worldwide audiences. And from Mark's perspective, this is a great way to go.
Scott Bloom:
Pummeled by the pandemic, Mark tells about his pivot back to something better. That is, his association with a rather unique broadcast studio. A studio specifically designed and outfitted to produce nothing but the best digital events. You'll hear all about that.
Scott Bloom:
You'll also hear about why Mark believes that the rush back to live may only be a honeymoon phase and why virtual and hybrid will remain relevant, especially when they're executed from a studio like Mark's. He'll also share good stories about quietly curating a virtual show from a live show that's specific to the at home audience. And about not so quietly using a smaller live audience to help make the digital experience explosive, entertaining, and engaging to many. Using television shows like Friends and SNL as analogies along the way, this is a really good interview. So, let's get going.
Scott Bloom:
I know you've been in the business 20 years, a technical director over the last few years. I mean, give me your background as in terms of what you've been doing. And then how you got into doing virtual and hybrid.
Mark Herring:
So what I've been doing for most of my life, production, live event production, I started doing as a technical director, about 20, almost 25 years ago now, on my own after I left a large megachurch in Chicago, I started doing technical direction. And I've been doing live events all over the world, many times, many places in the United States.
Mark Herring:
And when the pandemic hit, everything came to a screeching halt. My last show was in March in Boston and everything canceled after that. And it was pretty stressful time for everybody.
Scott Bloom:
For everybody, yes, yes.
Mark Herring:
Yes. Everybody was freaking out in the industry, as well as around the world. So, I quickly pivoted to doing some large scale, very high end virtual events, XR, VR stuff, where some of these big Fortune 50 companies wanted to continue doing their large events, but they needed it to be very, very cool and high tech. And so, the XR is extended reality, LED stages and creating these incredible backgrounds, or environments that people are speaking out of.
Mark Herring:
That was a pretty short lived honeymoon though, because it's so expensive to produce. And that was when we really saw a big pivot to these virtual meetings where instead of doing it on Zoom, or Teams, or Google Meet, or any of the other platforms, they needed the same kind of treatment and handholding that they get from a live event production company, but in the virtual space. They needed downstage monitor feeds of their teleprompter. They needed teleprompter. You can't get teleprompter on a Zoom call. They needed graphic support, current and next graphics and someone to queue their graphics. And the speaker timer. And all the things that you would get if you were live on stage, you're not getting in any of these meeting platforms. [inaudible 00:06:31] provide them.
Mark Herring:
So we saw, over the last two years, a lot of companies needing that type of service. And there was a lot of people that sprang into action to try to deliver stuff. Equipment suppliers, we've got all that stuff on the shelf 'cause we used it when we were backstage. We can deploy it in our warehouse and create a virtual environment that way. And it worked to some degree, but those weren't the right tools to execute. And that's really one of the things that I've kind of built my business on is finding the right tools, and the right people and the right partners to do an event that is right for the client.
Scott Bloom:
So you pivoted at the right time. Now, we've come through the pandemic. As you mentioned, post-pandemic, maybe post-pandemic people are going back to live, which everyone's excited about. But you and your company and partnering with Signature Productions invested a lot of money into a... What is it? 12,000 square foot production facility, 5,000 square foot of studios. You've got three broadcast studios. Why do you have the confidence now to continue with this virtual? Why don't you think it's gonna just vanish tomorrow?
Mark Herring:
There's a lot of different reasons. I think there's a lot of different indicators. Will another pandemic be right around the corner? We don't know. The economy right now is contracting. So what we've seen, and what we've talked to a lot of people about is that there is a lot of appetite for these virtual meetings to continue. And the real challenge for the companies, and the agencies that are being asked to produce these is how to keep the end audience engaged in the virtual environment. And a lot of the ways you do that is to heighten the broadcast experience through what we've built here. Through control rooms, or having a host, or your executive team in our studio shooting on camera. So that there's live component, even though it's a virtual environment.
Mark Herring:
There's a lot of different levers in play right now. Everybody is going back live. I've been very, very busy with my live work. But I think that's a bit of a honeymoon. I think you'll see in the fall that a lot of companies and particularly procurement departments are going to dial back on the amount of live events because they were able to save so much money doing events virtually. But the people that are actually wanting to do the communication are gonna want to heightened experience that engages that at home audience, which is much harder to do when you are in a virtual environment.
Scott Bloom:
Oh absolutely. So, tell me a little bit more about the studio. I had a chance to visit you there and check it out. It's very impressive. You have four different ways that you can do this 'cause I believe if we start going back to virtual it's gonna be a choice. Whether it's cost, or being able to bring in more audience. I mean, we're gonna keep on going forward live. Everyone wants that, but virtual's gonna be an option. So, what are the four different options that you have that you can provide at your studio?
Mark Herring:
Sure. So out of our control rooms, we have three control rooms, we can curate any one of these types of events. And we can actually probably do more than these four, but these are kind of the four basic ones. But you have fully virtual where every presenter is coming into our control room from their home, or from their office, or from whatever remote location that they're at via any of the typical web conferencing apps, Zoom, Teams, whatever. We bring them in individually, we treat them like they're a presenter on stage. They have their own microphone and they're not in a Zoom room with a bunch of other people.
Mark Herring:
And we stitch all of their different feeds together. We send those presenters exactly what they need to see and hear. We give them a specialized audio return back to them so that there's no echo or delay. And it's very, very meticulously curated so that they get that onstage experience. Even though they're at their home, that's a fully virtual event.
Scott Bloom:
And I guess one of the benefits Mark is that now we've moved past, hey, everyone is in their home, which you still can be, but there's a little bit higher level of production value. It's what people are more used to seeing on their screens. I mean, that's what you're trying to create.
Mark Herring:
Correct, yeah.
Mark Herring:
In those environments, we will have video playback, we'll have graphics that are supporting these presentations that we're able to create the windows the way we want those things to be seen, whether we're gonna take those things full screen or do multiple boxes with different presenters and graphics. There's a lot of different ways we can slice up that content so that we stay engaged with the presenters.
Mark Herring:
And we know all have in our industry the people that we're bringing to bear in these locations have a lot of broadcast experience. So, we know from experience that the people at home watching on a small monitor, if you're taking graphics full screen and talking to graphics, it's a snooze fest. People are gonna tune out. So, creating a very dynamic broadcast that has a combination of the viewer, or the speaker and that person's graphics. And things of that nature where we can keep the excitement up for that at home audience is critical to keeping an engaging event.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah. I mean, this is next level. Because, as I said, people have popped webcams in the back of the room and they said, "Hey, watch this," which is, you're actually producing basically a television broadcast at that point. How is the audience in... 'Cause I think people are still trying to figure out this hybrid and I think you guys cracked the code. The audience is a studio audience in a sense. You've got your four camera shoot. Do you also bring in the audience into that broadcast that people are watching? And how much interaction do the people at home have during this experience? 'Cause I'm sure it's on demand as well.
Mark Herring:
There's really two schools of thought. One, the first school of thought is that you're doing a traditional meeting and the primary audience is the live audience in the ballroom. And you're cutting a virtual show unbeknownst to the live audience. The live audience is there and we're basically curating a virtual show that's specific to the at home audience. The other school of thought is that, just like you said in the one that we just finished in San Francisco, was this way, the audience in the room was a smaller audience. And we told them up front, "You're our live studio audience. Like we're shooting a Friends episode. So, when it's appropriate cheer, hoot and holler. You might be on camera, don't be looking at your phone." And we had studio lighting in there. It was very much like a television show.
Mark Herring:
Cameras were much closer to the stage.
Mark Herring:
Could actually we had a jib camera that was sweeping over the audience half the time. You wouldn't do that in a big ballroom, that was not doing a virtual component because it's distracting for the audience. But when the audience knows ahead of time and the sensibility is more geared, the priority is for the broadcast audience, that live audience can tolerate it's kind of a suspend disbelief. "I know that I'm the secondary audience in this situation. Primary audience is at home." And they give you a lot of forgiveness on that. And it gives that at home audience a much better experience if we're really tailoring it for them from a lighting perspective, camera positions perspective, sound perspective. All of those things make a big difference to that at home audience. If the end client has those sensibilities that we want this to be a broadcast first and a live event second.
Scott Bloom:
I think that's great.
Scott Bloom:
As I said, I think your studios, your facility's called Signature Productions Southeast. You're located in Atlanta. I think we're gonna see a lot more of what you said, these hybrids where we're getting people together, but we're broadcasting to a bigger audience.
Scott Bloom:
I also see people coming into your studio with a host. I've hosted a lot of these studio events. And what's great, at least from my point of view, is I have more interaction with the people 'cause we're live. So now we can do panels. We can have discussions, conversations, interviews. And, once again, it becomes more of what the audience is used to seeing. So, I think that's great.
Scott Bloom:
So, as I said, you've been a technical director for years. And I noticed that things are starting to change in terms of costs out there. You had sort of alluded to it. There's a tremendous increase in cost in now lighting, rigging, food and beverage is going up, all the hotel expenses. This is a stark reality that everyone's gonna have to deal with. How should event planners be prepared for this? And do you think it will affect their decision to do live events?
Mark Herring:
Right now, there's this honeymoon period of going back to live. And it seems like there are definite still budget considerations. I'm fighting that with a lot of events where they have the same dollars that they had in 2019 and 2020, and they're just not going as far in 2022. And a lot of that has to do with flights and rigging costs, in-house rigging and power, food and beverage, hotel rooms. Everything's more expensive. The labor is more expensive. And the hotels are unapologetic about it. I had one producer tell me that the hotel that they were working with on another event coming up flat out told them, "We need to make back money that we lost over two years. So this is the price."
Scott Bloom:
Oh wow. But I think, "Yeah, you're right. Everyone's trying to get back what they lost."
Mark Herring:
Right. And in the virtual world, what we're offering here isn't necessarily cheap. It's not as cheap as doing a Zoom broadcast. But we're giving you a much better experience, the at home audience is going to get a much better experience. So, if you don't want to spend the money on traveling your 1000, 1500 people, and getting your sales out of the field for a whole week, all the hotel costs, food and beverage costs. And then, all of the production costs that you're gonna have in a ballroom that have gone up a lot over the last two years, you can do a virtual show for a fraction of that price. Still more than what you would've paid if you did it over Teams or Zooms, but you're gonna have a much better ROI on the final product. I think you'll have much better feedback from your teams, if you do it in a way that's gonna engage that home audience.
Scott Bloom:
How aware do you think people are at this point that there are these type of options like your facility and your studios? I mean, are they aware of it? Are they hearing it the first time? I mean, obviously, they talk to the people around them, they're getting advice, they're getting direction. But is this sort of common knowledge? Is this conventional wisdom at this point? "Hey, let's do it high end. Let's do it right."
Mark Herring:
I think there's a good amount of the actual production agencies that we work with, the creative agencies that do know about these solutions. There a lot of end clients that don't. There's a lot of agencies that don't know about this, that basically mothballed for two years. And now they're thinking, "Okay, live events are back." And I think this would be something very valuable to add to their repertoire, even though it's not necessarily the most desirable thing because they're so used to live events, the virtual is a paradigm shift for them that may be a stretch too far.
Mark Herring:
I think the most successful agencies that I've seen have fully embraced the virtual component, the virtual and hybrid solutions because they know that the procurement departments of their end clients are looking for these cost saving solutions. And even the clients in the C suites are like, "This is a great way to push communications in a quick, affordable and effective way."
Mark Herring:
So, I think the word is getting out there. I think there's some agencies and end clients that need to hear this news and go, "Oh, there's a better way to do it than the Teams meetings we've been doing internally, which I hate because half the time someone's camera's off, or they're muted," or all the different technical difficulties that you have when you have non-technical people running a meeting for you. So, getting the word out is I think important because I think it's here to stay. And doing it the right way. Really makes a big difference.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah, it's definitely a mind shift that I think everyone needs to go through. Now, I'm sure there's some event professionals who might be listening to this and going, "Hey, we're done with virtual. Let's just go back live." But I think what the good news is, is there are people in place like yourself and companies like yours that have figured it all out. I think the fear and the reticence of going back to virtual is they're going back to 2020 when they first had to do. And they didn't know what they were doing. It's now been solved for you.
Scott Bloom:
But let me ask you this, what about those people who say, "Ah, we're just not getting the same sort of ROI. We're not getting the same sort of connection out of these virtual events. How do we know they're even watching it?" Have you experienced anything or spoken to people, or what feedback have you gotten that, hey, this was the right move. If they have to go virtual, they want to hit a bigger audience, what would you say to someone who's considering it now and going, "Well, we're missing out a little on that human connection? How do you build that human connection in virtual?"
Mark Herring:
I think there's tools that you can utilize in the virtual space. I was just talking to someone about utilizing chat, having Q&A, having the ability for people to engage with the presenter. And it's difficult in virtual because there's an inherent delay built into the broadcast, which is purposeful for error correction and redundancy. So, the best examples of this being utilized correctly is you create a chat room in your virtual player and people can ask their questions in chat. So, we put that chat window into a monitor for our presenter, so they see the questions coming up. And they can answer them as they see them so that delay, it doesn't appear to be as dramatic.
Mark Herring:
Trying to do live questions is difficult because of the inherent delay built into the webcasting that we're doing. There are other mechanisms to do Q&A, but that's a very, very good way to keep your audience engaged. And then, they feel that it's not prerecorded. A lot of people think, "Well, if we're going to do virtual let's prerecord it and we'll just stream it out. We can edit it, make it perfect. And we'll just stream it out." If you don't have some kind of connection to live people, excuse me, I think the audience sees through that. If it's so polished, and it's so perfect and there's no live interaction, the audience will start to tune out. Having the ums and the buts and, "Oh, can I go back a slide," like that kind of live... I wouldn't call 'em screw ups, but those little things that show you that it's an actual live broadcast, keeps people engaged.
Mark Herring:
The funniest things on Saturday Night Live is when someone breaks. Why is that the funniest? Because it's live. Every time Jimmy Fallon would actually screw up a sketch on Saturday Night Live would always be the highest rated Saturday Night Lives because he broke. And he broke on almost every sketch he was in. But what made that funny? 'Cause it was live. So, having that live component, having someone maybe miss a line or have to go back, something like that, having that live Q&A that's really, I think, the secret sauce in doing a virtual and having that engagement.
Mark Herring:
There are other things you can do. There are other mechanisms and metrics that you can have to monitor how many mouse clicks are, if someone's navigating away from the broadcast window. That feels a little too Big Brother to me, but they do exist. I've looked at some of those analytics and I've learned from 'em. What I was saying earlier, when you take graphics full screen, people click away. So, there's learnings there that we know human nature is if something goes to a static, something on screen and you're watching a broadcast, they're gonna tune out.
Scott Bloom:
Well I mean, I think people have figured out ways 'cause occasionally you might not have a presenter present, so you pre-record that. You can also record, what we call used to call, live to tape, but live to digital. And with all the screw ups and then bring in people. So, we focused a lot today on virtual events, on hybrid events. I always talk to people about, okay, everyone's shooting for a 10. What does 11 look like in the virtual and hybrid world? What's your perfect scenario. It's a perfect event, everyone's out there cheering at the end.
Mark Herring:
Yeah, that's a good question. Just like one other note on the pre-records you kind of reminded me of. One thing you can do not saying that pre-records are a bad idea. But that live engagement is super important. You can pre-record a presentation, make it perfect. But then, if we put buttons on the top and bottom of that with a live host like yourself, or we have that presenter come back and do a quick Q&A with the host, or answer questions. So, we can get their content, we can get their freight packaged exactly the way they want it. Bring them back in the same wardrobe in the same studio live for Q&A, or with an engagement, or a one-on-one with another executive that's truly live. So, you're getting the best of both worlds. We've packaged their freight exactly the way they want it. And then, they can come back and interact with the audience some other way. I think that's a great way to do it.
Mark Herring:
Now to your next question, how do we make it at 11? I think that it's a combination of leveraging all the technology that we've built here, the redundancies or the safeties, the backups, all of the network infrastructure that we've put in place to maximize the best way to execute this thing without any failures, or monitoring all that stuff. So, that would be the first part of it.
Mark Herring:
The second part of it is engaging with agencies with their creatives to deliver a really, really fun, exciting meeting that has unique elements, very creative elements. We're moving back and forth from pre-recorded to live to Q&A, unscripted things. And marrying both that technology and that creative into a broadcast that is executed perfectly, that's an 11 to me.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah. I think that's what we want to see moving forward. And as I keep on reinforcing, it's about dealing with experts. And you don't have to figure it out any anymore. So, any of the event professionals that are listening to you right now, studios like Signature Production Southeast in Atlanta is a great resource.
Scott Bloom:
And Mark, thanks for illuminating us on what's coming up next. We all want to go back to live, but we know virtual's here to stay. Virtual's gonna be something that is gonna be used probably to reach more people. And we'll still be coming together, but we'll find ways to connect the audience at home with the people in the studio. So thanks again, Mark, for joining us. And I really appreciate your time.
Mark Herring:
Thanks Scott. Appreciate your time.
Scott Bloom:
That's it for now. I've been your host Scott Bloom, corporate event MC and comedic keynote speaker. And, of course, your connoisseur of connections. If you'd like more information, you can find me at scottbloomconnects.com. Or you could book me directly for your next event on eSpeakers marketplace at espeakers.com/marketplace.
Scott Bloom:
And if you like what you heard, subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you love what you heard drop us a review. And don't forget to share with your friends. For show transcripts and show notes with resources to help you get even more out of the show. Visit nomorebadevents.com.
Scott Bloom:
No More Bad Events is produced and presented by eSpeakers. And we're grateful to our sponsor ImpactEleven for helping us make our show possible. Thanks for listening. Now, go out and make your event a good one.