From turning passive attendees into active participants and getting emotional responses on a digital level, to using persuasive marketing communications to help set the tone and shift mindset in advance of the event, Dahlia El Gazzar offers game-changing concepts to share that will elevate your events to the metaverse level and beyond.
To Meta-Finity and Beyond (ft. Dahlia El Gazzar, founder, DAHLIA+ Agency)
Dahlia El Gazzar was already seeing the future of events ten years ago
OPENING QUOTE:
“It's not the same anymore. People's energies will direct you on how you design experiences. So this is where you need to go back to basics.”
-Dahlia El Gazzar
GUEST BIO:
Dahlia El Gazzar is the go-to source for trend setting event solutions, tech news, event marketing, and social marketing expertise. She’s the founder of the DAHLIA+ Agency, a band of content creators, strategists, and live production experts that have been turning online events into thumb-stopping, mind-stamping, revenue-driving idea exchanges for more than ten years.
Links:
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[6:04] -When Going Digital, Start Personal
Connection matters more than ever
Dahlia says that when planning a digital event, your first priority should be knowing your stakeholders. You can’t create an intentional design for your event unless you know them on a deeper level— everything from the content and speakers to the engagement and interactions will be tailored and customized to what they want and need.
[11:59] -The Devil’s Advocate
Poking holes in the program
Dahlia believes in the power of uncovering mined opportunities. That means deliberately finding flaws in clients’ programs, ensuring they’re being as creative as they can be. As more and more people begin to see that content is the driver of a digital experience, and that those digital experiences don’t work the same as in-person. For example, Dahlia asks, “Would you sit on a program that is for three days, on screen, that starts at 8:30 in the morning and finishes at 5:30, one breakout session after another?”
Probably not. Our job is to design a better way.
[16:54] - Tools for Boosting Interactivity
Get people involved, even from a thousand miles away
When used creatively, digital tools can attach themselves to existing virtual event platforms. They can enhance the engagement or interactivity, even bring networking and break down global borders. This is why Zoom launched their online experiences marketplace; why Airbnb experiences are actually becoming part of the events. It’s about seeing what solutions and technologies can work together, then letting event organizers focus on what they do best— making the magic happen.
[21:28] - Into the Metaverse
Is there a place for VR in events?
Dahlia believes in the power of the metaverse for events. She says that at their core, attendees want to be in a digital twin environment. Consider what’s lost in the switch from in-person to digital events— the tactile experience, the chance encounters in a hallway of the convention center. What if we can recreate all of that in a digital space?
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As the son of a successful salesman, he was exposed to the principles of building a business at an early age. As a comedian, Scott cut his teeth at renowned improv and comedy clubs. And as a self-taught student of psychology, he’s explored what makes people tick and has written a book (albeit a farce) on how to get through life. He’s uniquely positioned to deliver significant notes on connecting people and making business seriously funny. And who doesn’t like to laugh?
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SHOW CREDITS:
Dahlia El Gazzar:
It's not the same anymore, people's energies will direct you on how you design experiences. So this is where you need to go back to basics.
Scott Bloom:
Welcome to No More Bad Events, the podcast for professional event organizers and anyone who wants to take their events to the next level. Each week we'll hear from the best in the business and get an inside look at what goes on behind the scenes at the world's most perfectly executed conferences, meetings, and more. Together we'll learn the secrets and strategies to help us reach one big goal, no more bad events. Our show is brought to you by eSpeakers, and I'm your host Scott Bloom. Let's get started.
Scott Bloom:
Today's show is sponsored by ImpactEleven, formally known as 3 Ring Circus, the best and most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers. They're not just elevating an industry we know and love, they work with hundreds of speakers to launch or scale their speaking businesses, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. If you're looking to take your speaking career to the next level, they'll help you make a bigger impact faster. To learn more and schedule a free intro call visit impacteleven.com. That's impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com.
Scott Bloom:
No more bad events is produced and presented by eSpeakers, who believes in the magic that happens when the perfect presenter gets in front of your audience and moves them. The eSpeakers marketplace helps you find, connect with, and hire from the deepest catalog of experts who speak on the planet. The platform makes it easy to find, contract, and pay the expert who will ignite your audience to accomplish your meeting goals, and exit to a standing ovation. For more information visit eSpeakers.com/nomorebadevents. That's eSpeakers.com/nomorebadevents.
Scott Bloom:
If you really want to take your event to the next level, the greatest level, and you're doing digital, you got to listen to Dahlia. Dahlia El Gazzar is the guru of digital events. Known as the coffee fueled go-to source for trend setting solutions, event tech news, event marketing, and social media expertise. Dahlia is the tech evangelist and founder of the DAHLIA+Agency, and in today's podcast she brings it. From turning passive attendees into active participants, to getting emotional responses on a digital level, to using persuasive marketing communications to help set the tone and shift mindset in advance of the event, Dahlia has great game changer concepts to share that will elevate your events to the metaverse level and beyond. So without much further ado, let's jump in right now and get the skinny.
Scott Bloom:
You have a lot of terms that I think you keep on evolving about yourself, I've noticed there's a lot of titles, and I'm going to read a few of them for you. Tech evangelist, I think we were there for a little while, then you became a tech therapist, which is nice, so I'm sure you only had to work 50 minutes out of an hour, so that part worked out. You were an event experience designer, content strategist, idea igniter, ruckus maker, and other people call you queen of events. What is the common denominator between all those title titles, do you think?
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Rhe common denominator is I am one who loves to just push people out of their comfort zone, out of the vanilla zone, if you will, and the way to do it is to be an evangelist of solutions that will get you there, but that's the last thing that you look at. The idea igniter is someone has to spark ideas in you. So whether it's a concert in a yurt, or it's an event that takes place on a boat or in an Airstream, what's going to get you there? What's the solutions that are going to get you there.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
The whole tech therapist thing has been real for quite a bit of time, because if you think about it, a lot of people still are ugly crying in the bathroom with a bottle of wine in hand when they are asked to deliver digital events, something brand new, and they can't wrap their head around technology or digital solutions. And they really don't have to, they just have to have the vision. So the therapy will always be there, and it is 60 minutes, it's not 50 minutes a session.
Scott Bloom:
Okay, the whole 60 minute session. Now talk about something that really turned all of us upside down, this whole idea of tech in every aspect. Now I'm sure you had had experience with it prior to that word we're not going to mention, this little timeout we had, this little digital time out we had.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Time out is a good one.
Scott Bloom:
But we really, everyone freaked out because they didn't know exactly how to approach this, the whole idea of technology really just scared us, made us uncomfortable. So how do you get people to feel more comfortable with it and be able to have, does the vision for the experience come first and then we figure, how do we funnel that through a digital event?
Dahlia El Gazzar:
So with a digital event, what comes first is knowing who your stakeholders are. So you really have to know them on a personal level, because right now we have come to a point, and we've always wanted to do this, we've always said, know thy audience, use your analytics, know who your audience is, know who your sponsors are, your attendees, all of that good stuff, but we would just say, you know what, not right now. But no, right now is the time to do it, because after that the next step is the plan, is the intentional design of what you're going to put in front of them. Everything from the content, from the speakers, the engagement, the interaction, tailored and customized to what they want.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
So gone are the days, and I know that some people will disagree, but that's fine, where it's like you're walking down the aisles of 10 by 10s one after the other, and you think that you are going to consume all the collateral that's thrown your way. That is not the case anymore. So trade shows have always been that big question mark, are they going to stay? Are they going to be alive? Do I enjoy being in a trade show with 70,000 people. At this point, not really, and I am a trade show junkie. I was the one who people relied on their, they needed energy, they would come and recharge from me. My social battery was always on. But at this point it's not the same anymore, people's energies will direct you on how you design experiences.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
So this is where you need to go back to basics, and I know it's very elementary, I know people say, "But we do, we use data analytics to know our audience," but do you really know them? Because right now you're competing against their time, you're competing against their time away from home and loved ones, and you're competing against their content behaviors, how they are able to consume content, if that makes sense. So I would say the technology and the platforms are the last that you should be entertaining. And so this is where the therapy comes in, that handholding comes in. We've been doing digital events for a very long time, we just haven't been doing it at the level that people are expecting at this point.
Scott Bloom:
So what are they expecting, do you think, at this point? I mean, I know a big part of your event design is really to have empathy for this stakeholders, have that emotional connection. How do we get that emotional connection on a digital level? Is it in terms of how you produce the event, is that the one? I mean during the, I'm not going to say it, during that little time out, so as a host I've hosted a lot of virtual events, that's what I moved into the last couple of years, and we started where we were just at our desks, I quickly had to build a studio, I quickly had to the ante of what I was going to bring to the event, even though everyone else was at desks. Then we moved into a studio, so now I'm hosting events at times in a studio, so we've upped the production value, making it look more like a television experience. Is that what it means to move into a more emotional or empathetic connection so that they feel like it's something more familiar?
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Well, the empathy and the emotion will come from different elements of your experience. It will come from the connections that you make, it will also come from the stories that you share on a professional side and on a personal side. So everybody right now is going through something, through a story. There's a lot of emotion there, some of it is negative, some of it is positive. The element of empathy and the element of I want to enter an experience or an event where I will leave a better person, I will leave with better connections, or I will leave with content that will empower me, that is the point where all event organizers should take a laser focus on what are you delivering to your attendees or participants? And then designing the behavior paths, because this is where we can become very, it can become very cool.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
So we talk about communities, that's another buzzword that's out there right now, communities turn into families very instantaneously if you are designing it in the right way.
Scott Bloom:
And so you talk about building communities, some of what you're talking about is maybe, on the technology side, stuff that people aren't aware of. So is part of your job as an experience designer, event designer, letting them know what's available, and where do you see us moving as we're, I'm sure the advice you're giving today is different than a year ago, where do you see things moving?
Dahlia El Gazzar:
I think one of the titles that never makes it on a LinkedIn, or anything, is that I am the best devil's advocate. So our job, and my job especially, is to just poke holes in someone's program to make sure that they're uncovering missed opportunities, to make sure that they are really being as creative as they can be. Because if you think about it, if we flipped it, and people are saying, oh, I picked my, my platform, I'm going to be designing an event on Zoom, you've already limited yourself so much that it doesn't make sense anymore. You're already within the parameter of a platform, and you need to flip it in order to be able to say, this is the experience that my attendees want.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
What I'm seeing is going to be different is people are going to realize that the content is going to be the driver of the experience that you engage in or commit to, and it's going to be a commitment in the end, whether it's voluntarily, whether it's by time, even engagement, energy, those are going to be the new currencies that you're going to ask your event participants to give in order to be there. And you know, I'm going to ask, Scott, I'm going to flip the script here for a second and interview you for a hot minute, would you sit on a program that is for three days, on screen, that starts at 8:30 in the morning and finishes at 5:30, one breakout session after another, maybe all pre-records, and that are available.
Scott Bloom:
Absolutely, stop right there, absolutely not. And I saw that quickly as we were evolving in this virtual world, that people, they got that pretty early. It's interesting how live events have changed over the last 15 years, people have realized, hey, we can't keep people in a general session room for eight hours anymore, we need to have some more interactivity, we need to break out into breakout sessions. So what does that look like? In a digital world.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Exactly, but even in a digital world, but even in a live audience type of scenario, if you look at the way trade shows are done, or if you look at where sponsors have an info booth, or something, they're expecting traffic to them. What if it's an activation? So what if the sponsorship areas are all different types of activations? It's not about sales anymore, it's about conversations, it's about how me as a sponsor or a company is going to make Scott feel great about your professional development, something that you need for your business, for example, and you leave happy, you don't leave as if there's a hard sell that happened. This is where the cool shit can happen, where you can say, let's make it fun. Why not make it fun? Why not make it into conversation pods?
Dahlia El Gazzar:
The one key element with this is the way you are going to be helping sponsors and exhibitors and attendees behave around those activations. So what's the conversation going to look like? Make sure that you tell your sponsors exactly what your attendees are about, what's in it for them, for example, so that those conversations can be real.
Scott Bloom:
Well, I mean, you talked about have some sort of activation, having someone go somewhere because they're going to get something out of it, whether it's personal development, or something fun, made me think of a clubhouse, which I'm not part of, but that was all about drawing people in for conversation. So how much is social media driving some of the event experiences now? Are people trying to mimic that? I mean, our attention span is a lot less now, people are watching videos, 30 seconds. I'm a comedian and I love to put up three minute videos, and that's way too long now, the most people have attention span it's 20 seconds, it's a TikTok world. How does that affect what you're going to do in a digital space?
Dahlia El Gazzar:
This goes back to you knowing your audience. Is two, three minutes long? Or is it the content that you're producing not long enough for them to grasp it, or to share it, et cetera. So it's a catch 22, but this is where you need to go back and see what the data tells you.
Scott Bloom:
And I think that's the key in digital, how can we get it interactive? I love what you said about, hey, at some point the attendees would know, hey, there is the ability to move into a breakout room, or a peer to peer in that situation. And so I guess it's people like yourself, and people involved in technology, is how do we find other ways within a program to make it a little bit more interactive? Because let's be honest, people are just, they're going to have so much time to spend in front of a screen, just staring at their computer screen, without jumping onto another tab, or listening to something, especially with people's attention span getting shorter and shorter. So do you see digital virtual events going in that direction, where people are going to find that next creative tool to make it engaging? More engaging, more interactive?
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Absolutely. So the idea of the digital tools that you're going to see bubble up quite a bit is those that can attach themselves to existing virtual event platforms, meaning those that can enhance the engagement, or the interactivity, those that can bring networking and break down global borders. So this is why Zoom launched their online experiences marketplace, this is why Airbnb experiences are actually becoming part of the events. That whole backend of seeing what solutions can work together, and the technologies, and all of that, event organizers really do not need to understand the ins and outs of it, let them focus on what they do best, which is become Harry Potter with a wand. I want to make this magic happen, you only have to use the technology in a different way.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
The key element here is the marketing piece. It's what kind of messaging are you going to have in place for your attendees to guide that behavior? So you shift them, like you were talking about, like a plenary session or a general session. How do you shift them from that one room, or that location, and tell them, "Hey Scott, you're going to like it better here, go this way." So this is where the persuasive marketing communication is also going to be key for events going forward.
Scott Bloom:
What about the, I noticed one of the evolutions very quickly in the virtual world, when everyone was placed in that, we went from just the Zoom meeting to some people putting together some very sophisticated interactive programs, with avatars and characters, and that became a fun element.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Yep.
Scott Bloom:
What has your experience been with that? Where people, in one of them we literally moved down a hall, it was the actual replica of the hall where they were going to have it over in Europe, people would move through it, they went into a general session room, they actually, you don't see them sit down, but there was a sense of everyone's in that meeting together. Where we're bordering on is now next going into, to use the word everyone's using, is the metaverse. When are we going to be strapping on our goggles and having that virtual experience? Because I could see that being the next evolution, we're all going in that direction. So tell me a little bit about the interactive experience with avatars, and then maybe even moving into a more virtual reality experience.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
So everybody is talking about the metaverse, it's been happening, it's happening right now. If anybody has kids, you can easily just sit next to them and you can experience that kind of verse, or the metaverse, through Roblox, through Minecraft, through Fortnite as well.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah, anything with virtual reality is mind blowing when you put those goggles on.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Oh totally.
Scott Bloom:
Your brain has to take a while to process, oh, I'm in the middle of a street in downtown Tokyo and there are people walking by me, or in a more animated world, like you said, Minecraft or Fortnite, but it's putting you in, I mean, talk about being interactive.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
The key to the metaverse is you are entertaining audiences in a format that they're comfortable with. And so this is not a gamers' world only, this is truly attendees that want to be in a digital twin environment. So when you say that you went into one of those virtual ecosystems where you're walking down the hallway, et cetera, and imagine if there's attendees that are onsite that are on a very similar convention center and it has a digital world, and they're in parallel worlds, I think that's where the magic is going to happen. You're going to get a new type of audience that would want to be within the metaverse, they will want to interact in specific ways. They also will have certain expectations that you will need to entertain.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
So this is where, if you look at the headlines, you have major brands that are launching shops and product reviews, and almost velvet rope type of style of events within the metaverse, within a virtual world, that nobody else has access to. And so that whole feeling, because you and I spoke about emotions, and empathy, and what's that emotional attachment, that emotional attachment of me first in that world is going to be more so within the metaverse than before. It's mind boggling, and some people are just looking at it and saying, it's not for me. When you look at your usual event organizers for even medical and healthcare professionals, I have a feeling the virtual reality augmented reality, and that world, is going to be more relevant to them than before. Because imagine if you are able to use AR or VR and take a journey within a body, and able to manipulate organs within the Oculus, for example. You remember that old movie Fantastic Voyage?
Scott Bloom:
Yes, yep. And they did an Interstellar version, I think, with Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan too, same concept, going through the body.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Yeah, it was called Innerspace.
Scott Bloom:
Innerspace, yes.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
That one was a funny one, yep.
Scott Bloom:
You know your inner body movies.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Exactly, I do. But the thing is, if you think of it, you're actually combining a couple of things. You're combining an immersive experience, and you can also be combining education and content, because if you're able to manipulate organs, and then also be having conversations with other people within this immersive environment, if you will, that's a game changer for many, and that's a specific audience.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
So it's funny because when people tend to create experiences for audiences, and they keep saying, I keep getting the comment, "Our audience is too old, they're not tech savvy, they won't be able to adapt." I don't think that's the case at all. I think it's up to the organizer to create experiences that also change the behaviors of attendees in a bit. And they're surrounded by technology like nobody's business. Look at all the robotics they're dealing with? And I'm also talking about the medical and the healthcare, but we are responsible for pushing our event participants when it comes to tech and digital and showing them brand new experiences, and why not do it through events?
Scott Bloom:
People are picking it up, they might be afraid of it at first, but the keyword you just used there was immersive, and that's a term I think is where all this is going in digital, the more immersive you feel, the more a part of the event you feel, then you have the ability to feel some bit of an emotional connection. You're actually feeling, what you're talking about is going from an observer or participant place to a more visceral experience, and how more visceral you get with digital then an immersive or virtual reality situation.
Scott Bloom:
I did research on your name too, Dahlia, and you probably know this, but it has rich symbolism. It's a flower, it was discovered by a guy named A. Dahlia, A. Dahl, actually, I don't know if you know that. The flower stands for wealth and elegance, and also for love and involvement. And I know that you're a person who really wants to connect with people, and I know you have love and a lot of generosity in this industry, and people respect you for that. I just want to say it was a pleasure to speak with you, and thank you for the engagement here.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Thank you.
Scott Bloom:
And continue doing the great work. You touched on some great topics in this digital world, as we've talked about, it is almost a new frontier for a lot of the event planners, and they need guides there, need pioneers like yourself to help guide them there, so thank you for being that, and thank you for joining us here today.
Dahlia El Gazzar:
Thank you so much, it was a pleasure speaking with you.
Scott Bloom:
That's it for now. I've been your host Scott Bloom, corporate event MC and comedic keynote speaker, and of course your connoisseur of connections. If you'd like more information you can find me at scottbloomconnects.com. Or you could book me directly for your next event on eSpeakers Marketplace at eSpeakers.com/marketplace.
Scott Bloom:
And if you like what you heard, subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you love what you heard drop us a review, and don't forget to share with your friends. For show transcripts and show notes with resources to help you get even more out of the show visit nomorebadevents.com. No More Bad Events is produced and presented by eSpeakers, and we're grateful to our sponsor ImpactEleven for helping us make our show possible. Thanks for listening, now go out and make your event a good one.