Michael Cerbelli has been in the events industry since he was 13 years old. What has he learned? That lifting up others can elevate you, too— and that’s just one of the inspiring lessons covered in our first-ever episode of No More Bad events.
Heart & Soul (ft. Michael Cerbelli, Cerbelli Creative)
Michael Cerbelli’s remarkable career of sharing, inspiring, & listening
OPENING QUOTE:
“Give it your all or don't accept the job. It's that simple. Do it the right way.”
-Michael Cerbelli
GUEST BIO:
Michael Cerbelli, founder of Cerbelli Creative, is known for producing wildly imaginative and successful events for over four decades. Michael is also known for generously sharing his knowledge of event trends and insights with others in the business via his now famous Hot List™. And it’s been said that how ‘The Hot List™’ goes, so goes the industry.
Links:
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[5:50] - COVID in New York
Taking changes head-on
Michael discusses how he went into 2020 ready to have a banner year at Cerbelli Creative, and then COVID hit. But where many leaders and businesses raged against the changes and longed for the way things were, Michael and his team immediately shifted— having twice-daily Zoom meetings to stay on track and keep moving forward. The result is that they didn’t lose a step throughout the pandemic.
[15:41] - The Hot List
Naming the trends before they’re trends
The Hot List is an annual event that showcases Michael’s annual list of the hottest and newest event & entertainment ideas before they take off. While it’s a thrilling, can’t-miss event, it’s also representative of something deeper— Michael’s commitment to sharing his knowledge, experience, and insights with the world. Rather than a zero-sum, competitive approach, he’s chosen to focus instead on how all people in the event industry can elevate each other.
[23:22] - Vital Advice for Rising Stars
What you should know entering the event industry
Michael leaves listeners with an emphasis on ‘heart and soul.’ Don’t just give your vendors start times— form a relationship and help them understand how they can excel. Don’t walk into a meeting and start spitting ideas— listen first. Understand the people and their goals and vision for an event.
[24:53] - Toothpaste Lids: On or Off
Know your clients & watch relationships blossom
Michael calls the early stages of working with an organization the ‘newlywed stage.’ Too many event organizers see this phase as a one-off, an opportunity to extract value and move on. But you should always be learning everything you can, under the assumption that you may be capable of a long and successful relationship together. Make the effort to listen and get to know what they’re looking for, and they’ll reward you with a long and valuable partnership.
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ABOUT NO MORE BAD EVENTS:
Brought to you by eSpeakers and hosted by professional emcee, host, and keynote speaker Scott Bloom, No More Bad Events is where you’ll hear from some of the top names in the event and speaking industry about what goes on behind the scenes at the world’s most perfectly executed conferences, meetings, and more. Get ready to learn the secrets and strategies to help anyone in the event industry reach their goal of putting on nothing less than world-class events.
Learn more at: nomorebadevents.com
ABOUT THE HOST:
A veteran comedian and television personality who has built a reputation as the go-to choice for business humor, Scott has hosted hundreds of events over two decades for big and small organizations alike. Scott has also hosted his own weekly VH1 series, and recently co-hosted a national simulcast of the Grammy Awards from the Palace Theater.
As the son of a successful salesman, he was exposed to the principles of building a business at an early age. As a comedian, Scott cut his teeth at renowned improv and comedy clubs. And as a self-taught student of psychology, he’s explored what makes people tick and has written a book (albeit a farce) on how to get through life. He’s uniquely positioned to deliver significant notes on connecting people and making business seriously funny. And who doesn’t like to laugh?
Learn more about Scott: scottbloomconnects.com
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SHOW CREDITS:
Michael Cerbelli:
Give it your all or don't accept the job. And it's that simple. Do it the right way.
Scott Bloom:
Welcome to No More Bad Events, the podcast for professional event organizers and anyone who wants to take their events to the next level. Each week, we'll hear from the best in the business and get an inside look at what goes on behind the scenes at the world's most perfectly executed conferences, meetings, and more. Together, we'll learn the secrets and strategies to help us reach one big goal. No More Bad Events. Our show is brought to you by eSpeakers, and I'm your host Scott Bloom. Let's get started.
Scott Bloom:
Today's show is sponsored by Impact Eleven, formerly known as 3 Ring Circus, the best and most diverse and inclusive community built for training and developing professional speakers. They're not just elevating an industry we know and love. They work with hundreds of speakers to launch or scale their speaking businesses, earning tens of millions in speaking fees, landing bureau representation, securing book deals, and rising to the top of the field. If you're looking to take your speaking career to the next level, they'll help you make a bigger impact faster. To learn more and schedule a free intro call visit, ImpactEleven.com. That's Impact E-L-E-V-E-N.com.
Scott Bloom:
No More Bad Events is produced and presented by eSpeakers, who believes in the magic that happens when the perfect presenter gets in front of your audience and moves them. The eSpeakers marketplace helps you find, connect with, and hire from the deepest catalog of experts who speak on the planet. The platform makes it easy to find, contract, and pay the expert who will ignite your audience to accomplish your meeting goals and exit to a standing ovation. For more information, visit eSpeakers.com/NoMoreBadEvents. That's eSpeakers.com/NoMoreBadEvents.
Scott Bloom:
The name her Cerbelli has been synonymous with the finest events in the world. And today, we'll be hearing from the Grand Poobah himself Michael Cerbelli. In the event business for over 40 years, Cerbelli Creative is known for wildly imaginative and successful events, but he's also known for generously sharing the wealth with others in the industry. He delights in communicating the discoveries that have made his company's events remarkable.
Scott Bloom:
And guess what? There's actually a name for this treasure trove. It's called The Hot List. So get ready. We're about to hear how his Hot List helps others produce nothing but the best events. Michael also shares good stories about what it was like the day COVID restrictions hit the pavements in New York City, shutting down almost everything except Cerbelli and his drive to keep things going.
Scott Bloom:
He also shares stories about why it's important to know which of your clients leaves the caps off their toothpaste. It's pretty funny. Anyway, he's fascinating. It's fascinating. So let's get right to it.
Scott Bloom:
I know you're always very busy. Just for the people who don't know Michael Cerbelli, Michael and I, we've known each other for years now.
Michael Cerbelli:
Many.
Scott Bloom:
So your origin story, you talk about being in the business now, what is it, 44, 45 years? Forty. Yeah.
Michael Cerbelli:
Going on 45 in September, believe it or not.
Scott Bloom:
Forty-five years.
Michael Cerbelli:
Yeah.
Scott Bloom:
So you're going, "Hey, this guy doesn't even look 45. How did he do that?" Well, he started when he was an infant right out of the womb and started going, "Hey, the lighting in here is a little bright." No. But I know you started at 13, that your origin story is you're 13, you're DJing at a block party for an American Legion block party. You move on to that and start doing professional MC work. You move on to event planner. You then move on to as a producer. Now, you're an executive producer of not only big, high end events, corporate events, you have The Hot List. What else do we need to know about this event and entertainment idea guru?
Michael Cerbelli:
Thank you so much that I'm glad you did your studying, Scott.
Scott Bloom:
I did. I did.
Michael Cerbelli:
I do appreciate that. And I was about to say that you've been on The Hot List at least twice, I believe. Am I correct on that, Scott?
Scott Bloom:
That is correct, as an MC.
Michael Cerbelli:
Yeah.
Scott Bloom:
And, yeah. Did some time, I think we did one in New Orleans, one in some other city, and I happened to be there when you proposed to your wife. Of course, you were going to do it in style.
Michael Cerbelli:
Yeah. It was actually maybe even more, because I'm going to tell you my favorite. I still tell everybody this story. I still laugh every time I walk into a Gaylord property. You were with me on a Hot List at the Gaylord in Nashville. And you came out on stage and was like, "I want to do an imitation of everybody coming to the Gaylord." And you were just looking for signage to figure out how to get to the ballroom.
Scott Bloom:
Yes.
Michael Cerbelli:
I thought that was the funny ... And I tell everybody that story all the time, Scott Bloom describes what it's like being at the Gaylord in Nashville.
Scott Bloom:
Oh, no. It was ridiculous. No, you're always getting lost. And I think I made a point of saying that you're supposed to follow the colored carpet to your room, except they have like four different shades of green. So that doesn't exactly help, especially for the color impaired folks, whatever the proper way to say that is. So what else do we need to know about you?
Michael Cerbelli:
Listen, I'm very lucky. I've always wanted to know. I would say I've always reinvented my career every 10 years. And where I am today, in 2020, I was so excited, because we were coming into a banner year, an amazing banner year. What I saw on the plate and then what started to happen in February or March, tomorrow was exactly two years when I took the stage at The Hot List in Las Vegas and I told that audience, "Clear your heads. It's going to be a rough ride on Monday morning, on March 16th. It's going to be crazy. We don't know what to do. Clear your heads for an hour and a half. We got to stay hashtag event strong."
Michael Cerbelli:
And that's what I did in 2020. We stayed strong. I literally just signed in February a lease for an 1894 four-story firehouse in Manhattan in Midtown Chelsea that was going to be the event venue, the event space for us, shared space for industry partners. And, boo boom, it all comes down. Did we close the business? No.
Michael Cerbelli:
On March 16th, Scott, what really surprised me the most on how many people were shutting their doors right away. And I could not understand it. I was dumbfounded by it. We sat at our old office and I told the team, "We're going to go home. We'll look at this in a month and try to figure this out, where we are, but let's figure out what's going on." Obviously, we had cancellations, postponements, and things like that. And within two weeks, we did our first virtual event. We met every single day, morning and evening, by Zoom.
Michael Cerbelli:
Zoom, everybody can complain about Zoom. Thank God for Zoom. I got to be with my team. I'm not complaining about Zoom. Do I like the Zoom calls all the time? No. I could go back to a nice phone call once in a while as a conference call. I don't always have to look my best to be on Zoom. But zoom saved us and we got to know how to do events a different way. Three months later, we were back in that office as a team. We took in COVID protocol. We had to do everything the right way.
Michael Cerbelli:
So since June 1st of 2020, we've been kicking butt. And we actually did live events during this past
Michael Cerbelli:
Kicking butt, and we actually did live events during this past two years in the COVID, heavy duty COVID. We stayed the course, we stayed strong, we knew the changes had to be done. Did I have some of the great resignation? Yes. Did I still stay the course? Did I still stay strong? I could say I. It's we, the people that were here, and we came out of this stronger than we ever did before, and know the company, know the background, and this is a gorgeous place. Did we get hit with December, with some challenges this past December with losing events for the holidays and stuff like that? Yes, but I thank God that everybody across this country got sick because I believe it gave us herd immunity and now it's pushing us into this new realm of an incredible event industry. Live events are back, the strong need to stay strong, and this will help us grow as an industry. That's the long answer for you, but that's what I've done to make sure that we've survived and got to the next level.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah, you were very prominent in the event industry over the last couple years with #eventstrong, with your newsletters. I knew you were very prominent on video, helping people out. That's a big part of who you are, is constantly being able to mentor people, to bring people along. We've had this last two years. What are you taking from the last two years and bringing forward now?
Michael Cerbelli:
What I'm looking at is having the right team in place. I think what I've always tried to do is handle a lot by myself. I keep on telling my team this and my team hears me say it all the time. I've looked at this now as truly a company. Not Michael Cerbelli's company. There has to be more to what I started as a DJ and created as a young man growing up in Brooklyn and bringing in incredible partners and incredible players and working with the best. I'm not saying this because you're on the phone, Scott, but you know it. How many times we'll pick up a phone. Scott's the perfect person from this. Knowing what to take off the shelf, knowing what that right recipe is right for that client. And yes, we might not work 52 events a year, you and I, Scott, but I will always tell someone, "That's a great person to partner with. Scott Bloom's incredible. Love working with him. Definitely. You should use him if your name drops in the circle."
Michael Cerbelli:
A lot of event people don't do that. As I'm growing and understanding this, this is a company and I am the president and CEO of this company, which I'm very, very proud of. But one day when I take that step back, why can't the company just keep going? Why can't it go as a company, not an event planning company? "Hey, oh, he had a great event plan. Oh, he used to do the best events." That doesn't have to be that way. I'm building a team to keep this place growing and keeping it strong, and not an event planning company, but a creative agency that can do events, meetings, social, you name it, that's what I've taken out of COVID, to build a company, not Michael's company.
Scott Bloom:
Well, the name of the podcast, No More Bad Events, and so what you're talking about right now is having a team in place that can really do more than an individual can do, to be able to delegate action, be able to delegate purpose for different people in your organization. We're now moving into, as you said, live events. Think back. Is there an event that you did that you're now going to do differently? Is there anything that, with all this knowledge that you have from this last couple years that now we're going to do events a little bit differently? What would that be?
Michael Cerbelli:
It's a very good question, but I don't think that I'm doing live events differently. I think we're going to have more intimate live events. I think that's what I see. I don't see thousands and thousands right now. I hope it comes back one day. But I see more intimate gatherings. What intimate to me is a meeting, a conference with 300 or 400 people, not 800 to a 1,000. I also see that there will be a hybrid to these events. We have to know the future of events will have a metaverse to it. There will be this metaverse that we're going to have the virtual reality end of it, that how do we bring in people that are not going to travel and get to that next step, so I'm not doing the event differently yet, per se. I'm looking at it asking the correct questions, and most of the conferences that we're looking at this year are more micro, more condensed, more focused, but they're all wondering how they could get to that next level, and I think it's going to come.
Michael Cerbelli:
I think there's a little, okay, let's step away from the virtual world just for a little bit. Let's step away from the world... But it's going to come back and it's going to come back strong. What corporations are getting ready from everything from Bitcoin or crypto, I should say, not Bitcoin, from crypto to the metaverse, that is the future of our event industry and it's going to be very, very different, I would tell you, in the next five years.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah, I'm sure it's going to be different. We've been talking about people... I've been talking to a lot of people about the metaverse and going into hybrid. How do you give your clients what they want when they want something live, they want a big event live, but then they also wanted to translate into that other realm? Is that set? How do you do that? How do you get that right?
Michael Cerbelli:
Yeah. I think that's what we did right during the whole two years. I always say this to everybody, yes, that we did have the phone calls that I need a wine tasting, I need an art class or something like that, which were great. They were wonderful. But... But, here's the big but. We did over 300 virtual events in two years. What made it very successful and why the companies liked it is because we made it interactive at the same time. It wasn't just calling someone, "Can you teach people how to do vases?" We took the meetings and events and the content that happened on the screen and worked with the right partners, meaning using a good platform, still having a back of house and things like that, switching properly, having a good MC, bringing the right people in place. I truly believe that the events need to still have a sense of wow to them, keeping it engaging, make it interesting, make the audience feel like there's a connection.
Scott Bloom:
No, these are exciting times now. It got us to look at what we've been doing year after year, and I know you're about finding new trends and finding new things, but we're realizing that we can do things a little bit different. We can make them a little bit more personal. Let's talk a little bit about the hot list. When is your next hot list coming up?
Michael Cerbelli:
Well, it should have been this May fifth, Cinco de Mayo, in Anaheim, California. That's where I had to make this decision, and it was not an easy decision for me. Think about this. 20 years. The first hot list was not the hot list. It was Michael Cerbelli's 101 Hot [inaudible 00:16:03] entertainment ideas in nine...
Michael Cerbelli:
... Hot list. Let say it was Michael Cerbelli's 101 Hot Event & Entertainment Ideas in 90 minutes. And I spit out 101 ideas in 90 minutes, Scott and I was sweating in the room and some of the audience said to me, "Why are you giving away all this information?" I was like, "What do you mean? Why am I giving all the way this information?" They should be calling direct. You shouldn't be doing this. You're giving away your little black book of ideas. And I didn't feel that way. And I said something to you a moment ago. I can't give you, Scott, 52 jobs a year. It's impossible. But if 52 people knew about you or a hundred people knew about you, or 200 or 1000 people, you're going to be kept busy. That's how we share the wealth and keep the strong, the best of the best in the industry.
Michael Cerbelli:
So if I feel I found something great, that's wonderful. If I hide it, then no one's going to know about it except for my clients. I think we should keep our entertainment partners, our creative partners, our production partners going strong because the more that they work, the more they're going to grow and have more money to invest in better equipment or better ideas, or creative ideas. So whatever that may be. So this year, I literally said I'm not going to do a hot list. I will be doing some write-ups and articles about some ideas and things like that. But this year was the step back that I had to take because it is just overwhelming by the phone call that comes.
Michael Cerbelli:
I got a phone call last Friday, a week ago from today at three... I'm sorry... An email at 3:30 in the afternoon. Can you jump on a call? We want to talk to you, blah, blah, blah. Four o'clock we were on the call, 4:30 we found out we were going to Barcelona. It goes that fast. And it's not that I need weeks to make decisions, it's coming in that fast.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah. I mean, I've always admired you about that fact that there is something you're looking at the industry as a whole as something bigger than yourself. And yes, the initial response would always be, "Hey, I have a great idea and I don't want to give it away." And I think that's what set you apart and very early in the beginning, and why people looked to you was because you were sharing these ideas, you were sharing these trends. And it's not just entertainment, it was just a lot of different creative ideas. You were going to have this event in May. Are there any creative ideas that have come up that you're disappointed? You're like, "Oh, I just wanted to share that with someone." Here's your platform now. Give me a couple of hot ideas. You look up on the wall, looking on the wall, what do you got from it?
Michael Cerbelli:
You see I'm looking on the wall... It says THL 21, some of the great ideas that were there. Great mixologist Justin Pasha called the cup bearer. Why not take your bars to the next level? The cup bearer, they're out of Greenwich, Connecticut and Justin, besides being probably one of the most handsome men in the whole entire world, he is just such a personality and his team is stunning and beautiful as well. They do the Greenwich polo club each year. And a dear friend of ours in the catering business, again, sharing ideas. Jeffrey Selden from Marcia Selden Catering, him and his sister Robin said, "You have to check this out, Michael." And that's how a lot of ideas come. So we saw Justin for the first time and Justin and his team, not just flare bartenders, personalities that are talking to the people and having a good time with them.
Michael Cerbelli:
We did an event here for a major whiskey brand. Again, the NDA, I don't want to say names, but we did it here at our venue, 2040 30 here in New York City. And I suggested, "How about we bring in a mixologist for this?" Well, they weren't bananas. They couldn't believe it. He's making bubbles filled with smoke to sit on top of their whiskey and things like that. So these are personalities. This is where you're taking your event to that next level. And because I've recommended Justin for an event, he got one of his biggest events ever that he just did I think in San Antonio this past December. And that's what I love to hear. And another great company that I love. And they would've probably been my house band this year. Jordan Kahn Orchestra, phenomenal. I don't even think they go by Jordan Kahn Orchestra anymore.
Michael Cerbelli:
I think they changed their name during COVID to the Jordan Kahn Music Group. Phenomenal. Some of the greatest bands in the world, Rob Lake was supposed to be our magician this year in a big show. And he's traveling to country, Rob Blake, and one of my other favorite people that opens in my show every single year with a strong message and some comedy, Brett Culp. Now who's doing something called StageStory. He gave an-
Scott Bloom:
I know Brett. Yeah.
Michael Cerbelli:
You know, Brett. Of course, you do. Brett gave an amazing opening this past July when we were in Miami at the Hot List at the 20th anniversary, and real, it opened up this way. This StageStory is a live recorded presentation, motivational. And by the way, Brett has become one of the most powerful motivational speakers in the business. I think he's doing like over a hundred events a year right now. People are flying him [inaudible 00:21:39] just because of the love that he wants to share in his heart with everybody and touch these people and really get to know them.
Michael Cerbelli:
But Brett opened up with his new concept of StageStory. And I think I don't remember the exact number but the first words out of his mouth was 455 days. That's the last time that we were together.
Scott Bloom:
Wow.
Michael Cerbelli:
Blew everybody away that audience, the same audience for... So when you bring these messages out there and people like that, that's why they end up on our hot list. So there's some great, amazing people but if you ever want to see if I could give it little plug, if you allow me, Scott. Meetings Today magazine does a hot list article that I write every two weeks. And I think this past week we just realized, I wrote my 76th article. You were one of my articles during COVID as well.
Scott Bloom:
Yes, I remember. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Michael Cerbelli:
Yes. So if anybody wants to know about some great ideas, there's 76 of them up on Meetings Today magazine, just type in the hot list and you'll find all of them there.
Scott Bloom:
So let me ask you. We're moving into this new time. And it seems like what I'm taking away from everything is people want something that's more personal, want to have some heart to it. And you are all about heart. What advice would you give to someone coming into the industry, or someone's been in the industry for a while to bring that element to the meeting, to bring not just passion for what you're doing, which is important, but to have a heart and soul to that event?
Michael Cerbelli:
I love that question because there is a heart and soul to the event. There's many lanes, Scott, in our industry. And I always say we're three lanes now going into a fourth lane with the hybrid and virtual and things like that. But sometimes we are the producer from invitation to thank you note, and everything else in between. And sometimes we're just the lane. And you've been that part with me on many events where someone will hire me, "Michael, please handle the entertainment section. This is the production company, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And then I understand what the entertainment side. And then sometimes we're even working for the other event planner because they trust us that we don't care. The heart...
Michael Cerbelli:
Because they trust us that we don't care. The heart and soul of it, and I think you could vouch for this, Scott, share the information with the vendors, talk to them about the event. Don't just hire them and say, okay, I need you to be here at 10 o'clock and blah, blah. First of all, tell them about the relationship, this person, blah, blah, blah, means a lot to me. I've been working there for them for years. This is what they're looking for, this is what the audience, this is what the makeup is. Give them that.
Michael Cerbelli:
And then as the planner don't walk into the meeting right away ready to spit out your ideas, listen to what they're looking for. Know what the outcome is this, what are they trying to accomplish that day? What is the goal? Who are the people there? You get through two years, you get through two years with any new client, which I call the newly wed stage, get past the newly we stage. Does this person leave the cap off the toothpaste? Great, I knew that. If you don't know a company after two years, then you're making mistakes. After that third year, I see how relaxed people are. Michael, you know the crowd, you know what we're expecting, you know what to bring in, you know what we like. Yes, is it the same every year? No, there may be this company likes to do A, B and C. Can you mix it up a little bit? Can you suggest? But listen to what they're looking for. If you could get through that two years, then they'll start listening truly to these ideas that may be a little different or trust you to turn to you that way. And that's what we feel is the heart and soul of an event. Give the client what they want, let the people know who are working for you and understand it. Get them excited about it.
Michael Cerbelli:
When we do the lights and when I speak to the lighting guy, the lighting tech, I was like, listen, you are the cherry on top of the cake. I don't care what I did in decor here but you got to make this room pop. They get excited about it because most people go, yeah, do what you want. Put red lights on, I don't care. Make it just fun. Give it some ballyhoo, make people feel like they're part of an event, that client will have the heart and soul of their event come through your direction. And that's what I truly believe is how to make a great event.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah. Get people invested in the event, get them to feel your passion and bring their passion to it too. Wake them up. So here I like to ask this question, people always ask how to make an event a 10 out of 10. In your mind, just to close things out, what does an 11 out of 10 look like in the event world?
Michael Cerbelli:
It's another great question. I think every event needs to be flawless. You know what at 11 is? When the client calls you back and uses you again, that's what makes an 11. Every event should be a 10. I don't care what the size is. I argued with partners for years and you'll hear the passion of my voice right now. Oh, they only have this much, give it your all or don't accept the job. Give it your all or don't accept the job and it's that simple. If you're going to accept a job for less money, that means I don't really care, I'm not making that much more except at the event, do it the right way.
Michael Cerbelli:
You know what? You don't know who's at that event, and I'll just give you a story that I argued what a partner once. I'm doing this favor for this client, it was a social event, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We did it, it was not a money maker. Fine. Did it. I got a phone call from that event, the aunt and uncle from Ohio were at this event. We loved it, we brought you and you want to know something. They owned one of the biggest brands in the world, they were the rich aunt and uncle that happened to be at the event and took me on a journey for years. They're retired right now and still keep in touch with me and still say hello to me. Never forget who may be at the event. So give it a 10 and your 11 is the phone call later, that's how you know you did a great job.
Scott Bloom:
Yeah. What a great way to wrap it up. I think this podcast was a 10. What do you think? If you call me after the podcast I'll know it's a 11. Can you give me a call after?
Michael Cerbelli:
I want to say something about you, Scott, to everybody. True professional. Every time we work together I love seeing you. This is why I love you for many, many years, and I'm honored to be here with you today. Thank you for having me.
Scott Bloom:
Well, thank you so much, Michael. I really appreciate it.
Scott Bloom:
That's it for now. I've been your host, Scott Bloom, corporate event MC and comedic keynote speaker, and of course your connoisseur of connections. If you like more information, you could find me at ScottBloomconnects.com. Or you could book me directly for your next event on eSpeaker's marketplace at espeakers.com/marketplace. And if you like what you heard, subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you love what you heard, drop as a review. And don't forget to share with your friends. For show transcripts and show notes with resources to help you get even more out of the show visit nomorebadevents.com. No More Bad Events is produced and presented by eSpeakers, and we're grateful to our sponsor IMPACT 11 for helping us make our show possible. Thanks for listening. Now, go out and make your event a good one.